Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Teaneck's Firefighter Fiasco



Those overpaid Teaneck firemen are too much.
At last night's council meeting, moved to the library to allow more people to attend, the firemen stacked the crowd in their favor by forcing "certain" people to leave the room because there was a "fire hazard." Interesting to have seen which folks the firemen chose to force to leave. Most were very likely people who did not see things the way the firemen did.
The firemen keep harping on their proposal to change overtime to days off and "consider" forgoing raises this year.
That, of course, means Teaneck will face the same situation next year. Their plan just pushes off the problem for another year. 
Layoffs mean we don't have to deal with this again next year.
Mayor Feit is a long time volunteer on the Teaneck Ambulance Corps, a volunteer organization (where he may or may not have sexually abused a teenage volunteer).
My question remains: why do we have paid firemen at all? Seems that most other towns in our area make do with volunteers.
From an earlier post, here are some stats regarding local fire departments:
Teaneck: 98 paid firemen, 0 volunteer firemen
Bergenfield: 6 paid firemen, 72 volunteer firemen
New Milford: 0 paid firemen, 48 volunteer firemen
Bogota: 0 paid firemen, 84 volunteer firemen
WHY ARE WE PAYING FOR A FIRE DEPARTMENT? 
And I still haven't gotten over the FACT that Teaneck's "bravest" caused the death of the Seidenfeld children a few years back.
Save Teaneck lots of money, fire the firemen!

111 comments:

Anonymous said...

And I still haven't gotten over the FACT that Teaneck's "bravest" caused the death of the Seidenfeld children a few years back.
Save Teaneck lots of money, fire the firemen!
do you have proof of this accusation or is this just more of your them against us idiotic banter?

Out Of Rightfield said...

In 2007, Teaneck paid a million dollars to the parents to settle the case and the town's insurance carrier kicked in an additional million.
Read it here.

Anonymous said...

From the same article you linked to, " The town and the fire department made no admission of guilt." and from the same article again, The house was found to have too few working detectors after the fire.

An investigative report from the state Division of Fire Safety concluded in 2006 that the fire department was not at fault. It said firefighters had completed a “diligent” inspection.
And you really must of missed this part OOR "“While the response and procedures of our Fire Department have been upheld in every investigation related to this matter, the uncertainty of the outcome of a jury trial when there were tragic deaths of four young children made a settlement the only responsible route for the township to take in this matter,” Township Manager Helene Fall said in a statement. “Defending the township in this litigation would have cost as much as $500,000 with no guarantee as to the outcome.”

/snip/

“The reason we chose to make this settlement is because it limits our financial exposure, and because we believe it brings closure to the residents of Teaneck and to the Seidenfeld family,” Feit said.
So I ask again where is the proof that the fire dept caused the death of these kids?

Anonymous said...

What about the moron that overloaded an extension cord and did not have proper working fire detectors in the home take some blame.

Out Of Rightfield said...

So the town paid 2 million dollars for something not its fault? And it was just a "coincidence" that the firemen (incorrectly) said the boiler was the problem and not to worry and five hours later the house goes up in flames because of an UNRELATED overloaded circuit in the same area in the basement. And the firemen conveniently failed to use the heat sensors which they had (and we paid for).
As with all settlements, the side that pays does not "admit" guilt. You make your own decision. I have made mine. I think the facts support my case.

Out Of Rightfield said...

Never said the homeowner doesn't share the blame. But the firemen were there and said all was well. Well, all wasn't well. Now four kids are dead.

Anonymous said...

OOR so the mother that overloaded the extension cord and had non-working smoke detectors share no blame for killing her kids?
I have made my own decision, the moron mother is to blame for killing her kids!

Anonymous said...

Never said the homeowner doesn't share the blame.

Really? can you please point out where you stated the mother was should be blamed to.

Out Of Rightfield said...

I said "I NEVER SAID" the homeowner doesn't share the blame. We have 90 odd PAID firemen in this town that don't deserve their jobs. Bring on the volunteers!

Anonymous said...

We have 90 odd PAID firemen in this town that don't deserve their jobs. Bring on the volunteers!Well make sure you sign up for a position OOR.

Anonymous said...

OOR have you found a mexican slave yet?

Anonymous said...

I CAN ONLY HOPE THAT YOU GET SUED FOR THE THINGS YOU POST HERE, AND ON OTHER BLOGS. JUST LIKE IN HACKENSACK. SHALOM.

Anonymous said...

I CAN ONLY HOPE THAT YOU GET SUED FOR THE THINGS YOU POST HERE, AND ON OTHER BLOGS. JUST LIKE IN HACKENSACK. SHALOM.
?? Who

Anonymous said...

It's all one big conspiracy... the Fire Dept purposely closed the doors on those that opposed them and I'm sure will try to tar and feather them next! The township knew last nights meeting was going to have a large attendance- they are to blame for not planning ahead and having it at the high school or somewhere more accomodating. There are codes to abide by and people on both sides of the fence were turned away; the fire dept does not discriminate. It is unfortunate because these people regardless of their standpoint are taxpayers that have a right to be heard.

It is ridiculous to compare Teaneck to Bogota, Bergenfield or New Milford. The population in Teaneck more than quadruples some of these towns. The demographics differ; education,industry, commerce, etc. If you are suggesting Teaneck go with a volunteer fire dept and a 10 car police dept, then you are really out of touch! Despite what some may want to admit, Teaneck has progressed into its own thriving little community that is more city-like than reminiscent of a township.
And last but certainly not least, the statement "...And I still haven't gotten over the FACT that Teaneck's "bravest" caused the death of the Seidenfeld children a few years back." Truly a sad day for all of Teaneck, no doubt. But a mature adult learns to differentiate between their emotions and thought processes, and their actions and behaviors. Apparently you are stuck on continuing to play the blame game, which is unfortunate. You still harbor ill-will, which is a shame,especially since the fire dept was found to be neither negligent or responsible. You entire post reeks of ignorance. Remember, opinions are like a--holes; everyone has one and some of them stink!

Anonymous said...

THE LAW SUIT COMMENT WAS MEANT FOR OUT OF RIGHTFIELD.

Out Of Rightfield said...

On a side note, today's Suburbanite seems to indicate that Board of Education trustee David Diuguid is finally starting to "get it." Here's his quote: "My preference is to maintain all things academic and make cuts in other areas, such as athletics and extracurricular activities."
That's what I've been advocating for all along.

Anonymous said...

Out of Right Field just confirmed what she is all about. By starting a forum she knew would spark fireworks and then trying to change the topic, she has shown us that she is nothing but an instigator. One who "goads," or likes to stir the pot. One who gets their cheap thrills out of seeing someone else get angry or upset. In most cases, this type of person is one who is lacking fulfillment in their own life and is generally suffering from low self-esteem and self-loathing. I'd like to say I feel sorry for you O.O.R.F.- but facts are, I don't. I hope you continue to live your pathetic and miserable existence. And to all others: GOOD DAY!!

Out Of Rightfield said...

Geez, Anon, maybe it's just my ADHD

Anonymous said...

Geez, Anon, maybe it's just my ADHDinbreeding is more likely

Anonymous said...

Get real or get out. Have you ever enterd a fully involved building? HAve you ever been there when a firefighter brings out an unconscious person and then work miracles to revive them so that they may live again. Having been a volunteer for over 25 years I have done those things. Being a volunteer means making a commitment and a BIG one at that. Imagine having your children's birthdays or other family gathering and the alarm comes in and you ahve to leave. It is done but at what cost? For myself it was a big one. Volunteers are great and the backbone of community service, but a township like Teaneck needs paid firefighters to be there when we cannot. A volunteer FF goes through some serious training but nothing can compare to the training that a PAID PROFESSIONAL gets. AS i said in the beginning GET REAL or GET OUT. Support the TEANECK FIRE DEPARTMENT!

Out Of Rightfield said...

This comment appeared on the Bergen Record site (it's not mine).
woodbutcher says: When are the taxpayers of Teaneck going to rise up & demand changes? This is just business as usual for this Fire Department, historically the county's most incompetent brigade! Their ancient "surround and drown" mentality dosen't cut it anymore. For a paid department, these clowns aren't nearly as skilled as glorified "foundataion savers." There are volunteer departments nearby that (on a bad day) can put these buffoons to shame! Wake up Teaneck, you deserve much better than this!!

Out Of Rightfield said...

Here's a post that the well-respected Teaneck Information man Alan Sohn posted on the Teaneck Progress blog.
FEBRUARY 16, 2009 1:29 PM
Alan Sohn said...
I agree that the Teaneck Fire department does a good job for the residents of Teaneck. All of the water pumping, wrecked-car extracting, car-door unlocking and self-cleaning oven fanning anecdotes are accurate depictions of the services that the TFD provides.
The Teaneck Fire Department is one of four municipalities in Bergen County -- joining Englewood, Hackensack and Ridgewood -- with paid fire departments. I am sure that the residents of those places could also provide paeans to their fire departments.
The residents of every other borough, city, township and village, all 66 of them, are protected by volunteer firefighters. I am also sure that residents of those places could provide their own water pumping, wrecked-car extracting, car unlocking and self-cleaning oven fanning stories of their own.
Teaneck spends $10 million per year on salaries for the Teaneck Fire Department, and average of about $100,000 per firefighter. The total spending, including pensions, health and other benefits, brings the total up to about $14 million, about %20 of all municipal spending or about $600 for the average Teaneck household.
The four paid departments have 300 firefighters paid a total of about $30 million per year in salaries to protect about 150,000 residents. The other 66 municipalities pay a total of $15 million in stipends to their firefighters to protect some 750,000 residents.
All 4,000 firefighters in Bergen County have received the same training, sitting side by side at the County training facility in Mahwah, receiving identical training. They all use state-of-the-art equipment and drive modern fire trucks.
Yet we in Teaneck pay $250 per resident, ten times the $20-$25 per resident of almost all of our neighbors north or south. The data that I have found so far show no difference in rates of fire death, property losses due to fires or traffic fatalities in crashes. Nor does the data I have been able to obtain show any differential pricing for fire insurance rates that would show that the industry deems paid firefighters to be any more effective than volunteer.
I don't propose that we eliminate paid firefighters. During most of the core hours of about 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM, Monday to Friday, when most fires and other incidents occur, we should retain paid firefighters. In the other 108 hours per week, overnight and on weekends, we should start looking to establish a volunteer program that would replace departing firefighters with a volunteer program, starting with one firehouse and then expanding the experiment based on experience and savings.
Can volunteers work here in Teaneck? They work in 90% of Bergen County already. But more importantly, Teaneck already has proven the efficacy of volunteerism. Despite their lack of pay, the members of the Teaneck Volunteer Ambulance Corps provide an excellent service to Township residents, despite the fact that they don't receive a penny in pay. Their training and professionalism is the equal of any of the paid services available in other municipalities.
What about delays of volunteers traveling to a firehouse? TVAC has maintained a crew at its building on Windsor Road, requiring that "All members must be available to spend a minimum of 4 hours per week on duty, in uniform, at our headquarters." A similar on-site staffing period would help ensure adequate response times by volunteer firefighters.
Does Teaneck have volunteer capacity to support a partial volunteer fire department? My research has found that the demographics of volunteer firefighters does not substantially coincide with the demographics of TVAC. Nor do we need to make much of a commitment to get started on the path to savings. Training a first class of five to ten volunteers to fill the boots of five retiring firefighters this year could offer savings in excess of $500,000 in the first full year. These savings would continue, year after year. Building on these savings and replacing another five retirees the next year would bring savings to $1 million per year, another five replaced the following year could bring that up to $1.5 million per year. At every step along the way, we would be able to evaluate the savings and benefits and determine if we want to proceed with further savings.
Could we find saving in other places? Sure. I support any and all means of cutting costs, including savings in legal fees. But in these difficult financial times, we need to be looking even more carefully than usual at every penny we spend and determining if we need to provide the service and if we are providing it on the most efficient and effective basis.
Alan Sohn

Anonymous said...

So when are you signing up OOR?
Actions speak louder than words, step up to the plate and volunteer.

Anonymous said...

This comment appeared on the Bergen Record site (it's not mine).
woodbutcher says: When are the taxpayers of Teaneck going to rise up & demand changes? This is just business as usual for this Fire Department, historically the county's most incompetent brigade! Their ancient "surround and drown" mentality dosen't cut it anymore. For a paid department, these clowns aren't nearly as skilled as glorified "foundataion savers." There are volunteer departments nearby that (on a bad day) can put these buffoons to shame! Wake up Teaneck, you deserve much better than this!!
Are you sure you did not pull this out of your kosher ass? I can not find this quote anywhere, is it actually a current one or one from months past?

Anonymous said...

Swine flu evolved in OORF's body and mutated to us humans.

Out Of Rightfield said...

The comment on the Record site appeared when Teaneck settled with the Seidenfeld family. Link is at the second comment above.

Anonymous said...

OOR-

I like this quote better from that same article:
captntruth says: The problem here as I see it is very clear. 2 people marry and have 7 kids then get divorced. No man around to make sure normal house things such as extension cords don't get overloaded. House burns down then they sue the government for their own bad choices. They are also suing anybody else they can think of. The people of NJ should sue them to recoup our expenses for their negligence.

Anonymous said...

Swine flu evolved in OORF's body and mutated to us humans.does that make her a non-kosher orthodox jew?

Anonymous said...

I wish you could know what it's like to search a burning bedroom for trapped children at 3 AM, flames rolling above your head, your palms and knees burning as you crawl, the floor sagging under your weight as the kitchen below you burns. I wish you could comprehend a wife's horror at 6 in the morning as I check her husband of 40 years for a pulse and find none. I start CPR anyway, hoping to bring him back, knowing intuitively it is too late. Still, I want his wife and family to know everything possible was done to try to save his life. I wish you could read my mind as I respond to a building fire thinking, "Is this a false alarm or a working fire? How is the building constructed? What hazards await me? Is anyone trapped?" Or to a call thinking, "What condition is the patient in? Is it minor or life-threatening? Is the caller really in distress or is he waiting for us with a 2x4 or a gun?" I wish you could be in the emergency room as a doctor pronounces dead the beautiful five-year old girl that I have been trying to save during the past 25 minutes, who will never go on her first date or say the words, "I love you Mommy" again. I wish you could know the frustration I feel in the fire truck, hitting the air horn again and again, as you fail to yield the right-of-way at an intersection or in traffic. When you need us however, your first comment upon our arrival will be, "It took you forever to get here!" I wish you could know my thoughts as I help extricate a girl of teenage years from the remains of her automobile, thinking, "What if this were my daughter, sister, my girlfriend or a friend? What will her parents' reaction be when they open the door to find a police officer with hat in hand?" I wish you could know how it feels to walk in the back door and greet my family, not having the heart to tell them I nearly did not come back from the last call. I wish you could know how it feels to dispatch firefighters out and then call for them and have our hearts drop because no one answers back...or to hear a bone chilling 911 call of a child or a wife needing assistance. I wish you could feel the hurt as people verbally and sometimes physically abuse us or belittle what we do, or as they express their attitudes of "It will never happen to me." I wish you could realize the physical, emotional and mental drain or missed meals, lost sleep and forgone social activities, in addition to all the tragedy my eyes have seen. I wish you could know the camaraderie and self-satisfaction that comes from helping save a life or preserving someones property, or being able to be there in time of crisis, or creating order from total chaos. I wish you could understand what it feels like to have a little boy tugging at your arm and asking, "Is Mommy okay?" Not even being able to look in his eyes without tears from your own and not knowing what to say. Or, to have to hold back a long time friend who watches his buddy having CPR done on him as they take him away in the Medic Unit. You knew all along he did not have his seat belt on. Unless you have lived with this kind of life, you will never truly understand or appreciate who I am, we are, or what our job really means to us...I wish you could though.

What Lola Wants said...

BRAVO ANONYMOUS 7:51 -
you put the chillul hashem bitch in her place...

Out Of Rightfield said...

Nice plagiarism, anon 7:51.

Out Of Rightfield said...

Wikipedia showed me a happy medium, an "on-call" fireman:
The term "volunteer" may also be used in reference to a group of part-time or on-call firefighters who may have other occupations when not engaged in occasional firefighting. Although they may have "volunteered" to become members, and to respond to the call for help, they are compensated as employees during the time they are responding to or attending an emergency scene, and possibly even for training drills. An on-call firefighter would probably be expected to volunteer time for other non-emergency duties as well (training, fundraising, equipment maintenance, etc).

Anonymous said...

thur.7;51 you should have put yo name on yourwords. very well said

thank you

Anonymous said...

thur.7;51 you should have put yo name on yourwords. very well said
Can't put your name on something that is not yours!.

What Lola Wants said...

you rock Anonymous 7:51. We all have to have compassion for the next generation and OORF's kids. They obviously have to live in a cruel hateful household and never learn the art or ethic of compassion. They are being taught to always smear the other person (as seen above) The next generation will unfortunately have these awful offspring unleashed on them with the nasty lessons they have learned. OORF is not an Orthodox Jew. Just a nasty person in disguise. She doesn't have the correct values. Obviously

Anonymous said...

Town size and construct matters. Would Hackensack Hospital have been comfortable growing or the town comfortable building big high rises without professional fire staff? I think not. Is there room for us to work with the Teaneck FD and the town to find some room in the middle? I just lost my job and the team that used to report to me just took a 10 percent pay cut. They're still pros and do a great job. Disgruntled? yup Employed and pridefully doing the best they can do? Yup. I would take a cut if it meant safety solvency and the ability to keep moving forward. Hey OORF, next time you need root canal or you have a major health scare, or think your kid got unlucky with the new flu go to a volunteer doctor. I'm sure they mean well and can do many things, but when life is on the line, you want professionals. Yes, its time to deal with the finances and get creative but it is not time to destroy the town. My child approves of this message, by the way :-)

Anonymous said...

The Teaneck Suburbanite published shorter version of this letter in its May 6, 2009 issue. Below is the full version of the letter. The letter is also available at http://www.takebackbergen.com/

Teaneck Council Meeting-Layoffs or Not?

By Wojciech Siemaszkiewicz

I went to the Teaneck township council meeting on Tuesday April 28, 2009, expecting that the council would deal with a host of important issues facing the township including layoffs of firefighters and cutting the school budget. I did not expect to find such total confusion, disorganization and resentment on the part of the council and administrators.

For several days in advance, the prediction was that a large crowd would attend this meeting. Yet Mayor Feist and the Council seemed to be utterly surprised and confused at the high turnout. After wrangling with legal considerations, the meeting was moved to a library. Unfortunately, the library auditorium is only slightly bigger than the council chamber. Many people crowded the auditorium, many more stood outside. Most people standing were asked to leave the room. Mayor Feist refused to postpone the meeting or move it to a different location. Unfortunately, this indecision seems to reflect the way this council operates; although the Mayor seems to think he is being decisive.

When the meeting finally started, there were other issues that apparently should have been addressed. For example, the issue of fees for senior center - the Mayor announced there will be no fees; layoff of part time nurses at the senior center - he announced they will be retained for one more year. However, he did not say what will happen to them next year. Why were the fees for the senior center proposed at all?

The council then turned to the two immediate issues that most people came to discuss: layoffs of Teaneck firefighters and the future of the school budget. Again, the Mayor in his introduction emphasized that there are no layoffs and the school budget has only been discussed this past Sunday.

It was unexpected to me that speakers had only three minutes to state their opinion before the council. Apparently, township of Teaneck is nonpolitical; however, even towns controlled by Democrats have imposed a five-minute rule in recent years. It is not clear to me why Teaneck has three-minute rule. I suspect that Mayor Feist and his council can only retain their attention for three minutes with poker faces. After that, they begin to look at speaking residents with resentment and disdain. It was obvious at the final comments, when Mayor Feist and some of council members lectured residents on the budget issues in a disrespectful manner.

A number of residents spoke on the subjects of firefighters and school budget. As time passed by, it became apparent that residents are concerned about their safety and security as well as about their children's education. There is a possibility of teachers' layoffs as well. It seemed unbelievable to me that the council would be willing to sacrifice well functioning, although already undermanned, fire department in order to save $650,000 from the budget. In addition, the firefighters have proposed a number of concessions or proposals for the township to consider as alternatives. According to Mike Hunter, the president of the fire officers union, there were no negotiations with them or a response to their proposals. Apparently, the township submitted a plan to lay off 47 positions to the state government. The problem was that Mayor Feist did not mention this fact in his introduction, even though, the state requires Civil Service towns to submit a layoff plan before introducing any budget that includes staff reductions. Obviously, Teaneck will adopt such a budget. Mayor Feist was dishonest at this point.

The number of a possible 37 layoffs just among firefighters seems staggering. Teaneck might as well close down due to lack of fire protection. All concerned parties should research if there is a law in New Jersey which prevents such a threat to the public safety. Clearly, the council is being irresponsible at this point. Some residents suggested cutting out other discretionary areas such as flower beds, business district appearance, soccer field turf replacement, etc. All these suggestions seemed like better suggestions than laying off firefighters. However, the council seemed dismissive regarding this point.

The administrator's response at the end of the meeting, although informative, did not dispel concerns about the layoffs and cuts in school budget.

It seemed to me that the Teaneck council, like many other councils in Bergen County, has not adapted to the economic reality outside of the council chamber. The emphasis must be on basic issues and services that the township is supposed to provide. These are safety and security of residents, well maintained streets, and efficient public service. I was surprised that Teaneck residents pay for the garbage pickup, have recycling pickup only once a month, and have many problems with foliage pickup in the fall. These are the very services that property taxes are supposed to pay for. Otherwise, why are residents in Teaneck paying some of the highest property taxes in New Jersey?

Wojciech Siemaszkiewicz

Bergenfield

The writer is a Republican candidate for State Assembly in District 37.

Out Of Rightfield said...

Regarding the above letter:
First of all, the mayor's name is Feit, not Feist.
If you are actually from Bergenfield you would be aware that you have a volunteer fire department with just six paid firefighters. Teaneck has approximately 100 paid firefighters.
You should be aware that the firefighters proposal to take off days in lieu of overtime for a year would leave Teaneck with the same deficit next year.
Also, Teaneck spends more per student than all but six like-sized school districts in the state.

Anonymous said...

Is it true that the fire department has more personnel than the police department? If so, how can this be?

Anonymous said...

The problem you are facing is endemic to all cities and towns in NJ. The salaries of police and fire are out of control. The problem is three-fold. It is systemic in that the binding arbitration system fails miserably in protecting the interests of the taxpayer, the unbridled greed of police, fire and teachers, and the lack of spine of politicians to confront the political base of civil servants in the interest of the taxpayer they represent.

Binding arbitration has created a system where a "public service bubble" is created and is about to burst. Town A gets a 4 percent increase for three years, Town B gets the same thing because it compares to A, Town C gets the same thing because it compares to Towns A and B. After the contracts expire, Town A gets a 4 per cent increase because Town C got a 4 percent increase. And on it goes ad infinitum. Cities give in to the contractual demands because they don't want to go to arbitration, and because they don't want to upset the political base in the public servants. This created the the system in which police, fire and teachers get guaranteed raises every year, generally between 4 and 5 percent. None of it is performance based, none is change in the volume of work. In fact, fire is down big time. Construction changes lessen risk of fire and fire spread. Look at the numbers and stop falling into the "laying lives on the line everyday" argument. Police and fire are more than fairly compensated for the risk they take.

What started out as a job with security has evolved into a job with security and guaranteed raises. This is all because the politicians have put the interests of the unions ahead of the taxpayers, and the unions themselves are so greedy that they cannot back off raises for even the shortest time or to protect the jobs of others.

crmnjst said...

Ok so the mother is to blame? Lets see you have a paid group of "Professionals" who were called by the mother, these "professionals" said all was ok and the house was safe 4 hours later four children are dead. lets see if you go to the Doctors office for a check up and the paid "professional" in this case the doctor says your leg is ok do not worry about the pain, four hours later a clot breaks loose and you have a stroke who is to blame? The idiot for having a clot?

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